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February 12, 2006
New Water Heater
This consumer reports on the economics of water heaters.
It's a tankless job.I did a lot of research and figured out that the most efficient propane hot water heaters are the new tankless models. At around 87% efficiency, they looked like they could take a huge chunk out of my propane bill (no residual heat loss and infinite hot water). However, at $700 for a 4.2 gpm model (enough for ~2 simultaneous showers) I had to ask myself, “Is propane even worth it?”
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Posted on February 12, 2006 04:41 PM by water 176.
Filed in Reports by Consumers under water heaters.
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| Comments (38)
Comments
Hey Gang!
I almost forgot, you can now see georgie the clown on youtube.com. You can now put a face to the con man.
Google George Sararu for the truth!
Posted by: sargon at September 14, 2008 05:25 PM
George,
You are nothing but a two bit con man selling dangerous junk out of your mothers garage! CEO of nothing!
Posted by: sargon at September 12, 2008 08:04 PM
I almost forgot : If there been any fires, don't you think that will be some Court Cases also ?? Anybody out there is that gullible to believe that the insurance company will just take the loss with out at list trying to collect ? Any brain left out there ?
And talking about dangerous products: Anybody out there know of ANY (and I meant ANY!) GAS Tankless water heater with a UL Marking ?
I will also ask you to go to any store and look where your precious BOSH unit is made but I believe is too much for your intellectual capacity so i give up .
Posted by: George Sararu at August 19, 2008 05:46 AM
The actual problem is two fold:
1.If you don't own anything (like Ron Stevens AKA Scamed2, AKA SolarRT00, AKA Sargon, AKA Rojo ...AKA....God knows anymore!) you can blabber how much you want, nobody can shut you off! Its your right! And sites like this who has NO CONTROL will publish your garbage just to show some activity to keep it on the Goggle ratings. Same problem is with the Los Angeles BBB: I can go tomorrow and place 15 complains in the name of ....(you choose!) and nobody check, nobody care! They just tabulate the numbers. There is not even a record of the IP address from where the complaint come.
I simply give up waisting my time responding to bums like Ron Stevens. I got better things to do with my time. Beside: Factories are in Nevada and Texas and complaint are in Los Angeles . I do not even reside in LA, what LA has to do with me ??
2. You can make accusations as much as you want, but you need to make a little sense also:
Let's take the complaint about me "refusing to sent parts even when customer offer to pay" Way do i have to get involved? All parts are available on the website and you don't have to hear about or from "George" In regard to parts wich need to be replaced every 30 days, well, there is a problem there so just replacing the parts will not fix the problem, only the result. (look at the definition of insane!)Unit need to be see by a professional and correct the real problem.
After all those things are said and done, the truth remains:
-We are the first and only US manufacturer of Tankless water heaters with a "Energy Star" rating. Go on www.omega2000group.com and check for yourself.
- There is no verified and adjudicated complaint with any consumer protection agency
- There is no recalls (voluntary or forced!)
- There are no Judgments or any legal actions of any US (Federal or State) enforcement agency. (even LA BBB had to concede to that!)
That is by far better record then ANY tankless manufacturer out there!
Let's face it : despite our concentrated efforts to make it the simplest installation possible today, a two bits of brain and good sense is needed for the installation, and the challenge to be overcome so when you have none ......you even forget your own name and start making one as it goes.
Posted by: George Sararu at August 19, 2008 05:35 AM
Everybody complaint Chinese parts, behind the sense is US company want cheap parts to make big profit. India even cannot figure out how to make a parts, so buy a quality brand which you will find made in china, but meet their standard.
Posted by: bomer at August 11, 2008 08:15 PM
Omega 2000, George Suraru will answer any and all questions before you buy, then you buy...you are on your own. No warranty...piss him off (easy) and he will not send you replacement parts that wear out after every 30 days EVEN AT YOUR EXPENSE! NEVER HIS OWN EXPENSE...! FRAUD. EVERYONE CAN STILL FILE A CLAIM ON PAYPAL EVEN AFTER 45 DAYS...NO PROTECTION THEN, BUT WE CAN BOOT HIS DISHONEST GREEDY POOR EXCUSE OF A CEO OFF OF THERE! I have never had or caused trouble with anyone in my life. This guy is such a jerk, I want to tell all that are about to buy and warn them! SAYS MADE IN USA___NO WAY, he should say assembled in USA after being shipped to him FROM CHINA!!!!! "F" rating with california Better business Bureau! Just google George Sararu! Just ugly , should be locked up for killing people in fires etc saused by his non-UL listed units that never should be allowed to sell in retail in the GREAT USA!!!! SEEN the same thing in MEXICO for $200.00, but better add-ons put on by name labeler there.
Posted by: Idaho at August 1, 2008 11:47 PM
Thank you, everyone, for posting this information. Just to see Mr. Suraru's own comments - his unprofessional responses - is enough for me to know better than to buy from him. I will buy a Bosch and be happy to pay the extra money for a quality product.
Posted by: ActionJackson at May 31, 2008 12:10 PM
The Omega is not a Cadillac. You get what you pay for.
When our hot water tank sprang a leak 2 years ago, we decided we'd like to try tankless, and searched for the cheapest thing we could get that would work for us. We settled on the Omega 412.
It's not perfect. We've gotten the 'cold shower' thing. You have to learn to adjust the controls and water flow, and make it work for your circumstances.
When you buy cheap sneakers at K-Mart, you don't expect them to be Nikes.
Recently, we had something go bad with the 412. I found George to be helpful and considerate. He sent me possible parts free, and has spent hours on the phone with me.
If you're going to swear at somebody, don't expect their cooperation.
Posted by: Ruth at April 11, 2008 02:36 PM
OMEGA 2000 GROUP water heaters are a ripoff. Google George Sararu , read his eBay feedback or view his F rating with the Los Angeles better business bureau.
Research this company don't repeat my mistake!
Posted by: sargon at March 19, 2008 03:38 AM
Omega 514 is a low quality piece of junk! My unit leaked from the heat exchanger and operated erratically. I removed the cover to troubleshoot the unit only to find cheap components and really
poor quality construction.
I contacted George who lied and lied some more. I removed this pile of smoldering trash from my home and purchased a Bosch unit. No problems No George!
I donated mine to a community college to show students how not to manufacture appliances.
Sargon
Posted by: Sargon at March 14, 2008 04:54 AM
This posting is not for Ron Stevens to read: He is too much of a wino to understand! This is for people who understand installations of a unit and need some guidance.
I kept the exhaust issue separate because that is actually a technical issue wich is worth to be discussed:
1. Our units are design to be installed in multiple possibilities. That is the reason we did not include any flue with the unit.
1. Side vent (right true the wall outside) For that we created a vent kit with freezing protection, flanges and so on . (See: http://www.omega2000group.com/product_info.php?cPath=30_22_44&products_id=66)
2. For vertical venting (true the existing stack) we had to make sure that one unit will fit a myriad of alternative like 3 inch, 4,inch, 5 inch or even a vertical flange. Also eliminate the 2 elbows and different length of pipe to create the "S" necessary to get away from the wall. length are different based on installation and the diameter of the existing tank . That where the "universal" come from. One unit to make up for all those parts.
The fact that the unit has a 2 inch exhaust is done not because is "metric" but because we needed to have the flue gases under a sufficient speed to reduce and if possible to eliminate the condense therefore not damaging the existing exhaust pipes. Another reason is to eliminate the possibility that winos like Ron to keep the 3 inch breeder from the old tank. You never know with such "experts" ! there are also issue with air metering accuracy if air pressure is too low . Will talk about it in another blog if somebody is interested to know.
3.Side vent but at the distance. (example will be the installation of the unit in the middle of the basement) For that type of installation we sell elbows, and length of pipe (1 and 2 feet)for you to create the length you need.
We will have a few video available to deal with all those issues, so, if interested visit www.omega2000group.com soon.
Posted by: George Sararu at December 26, 2007 11:43 AM
Dear Ron Stevens I give up! You convinced me! You are delusional, keep out of the punch! I do not need to purchase something from you to leave a feedback! I do not believe in feedback! And you are the living proof of that. It is totally flowed as I state and proved in my "guide" and agreed by over 50% of the readers! Wake up man,take your medicine! You never purchase anything from me on Ebay! And please don't say that you purchase it outside of Ebay because that will make it too easy to finally get rid of you from Ebay. You see, Ebay only take actions where "circumventing of fees" take place. What Ron Stevens forget to mention is that 2 times his so call actions where removed from Ebay and now he is on probation. I hope he make another one so we can finish this business once for all. Getting back to this posting: You have 3 units: OME 514 PV , then a OME 620 and then a OME 514 ZP. (proof is the picture you use for the gallery in the last "removed" auction!) You are talking about me that I may be drunk but you probably talk from experience: only a drunk person can admit in the same posting that they replace the computer with a Chinese unit sent directly from a company in China and then complaint about being too unresponsive ...to me!? Wake up body and make (at list!) some sense! And about your "Guides": Your record is abysmal, (1 of 4, 1 of 5 and 0 of 5 or the "classical" 145 readers and not even one bother to leave you a ratting! Keep the day job since writing is not for you.
George
PS: If i tell you that of the 43.000 sold (this year not last!) 16.000 are purchased by the Feds you probably will have a hart attack and the world will be a better world!
Posted by: George Sararu at December 26, 2007 11:17 AM
43,000 units SOLD LAST YEAR!...LOL...maybe in CHINA. Twist the truth some more as that is what you are really BEST IN THE INDUSTRY at. ( the con industry)
Posted by: scammed2 at December 10, 2007 03:12 PM
Hey George,
Won't you tell everyone how you bid on one of my items with another user name in an attempt to give negative feedback. But you were CAUGHT and almost thrown from Ebay yourself. Go ahead and deny it and I will post the obvious evidence. Everyone who has been scammed by him should list a "guide" on Ebay for the model they bought. When I told you that I was going to sell my unit on ebay you replied. "LOL you will never sell anything"...You didn't find it so funny when you saw the TRUTHFUL listing...you are really such an idiot,you didn't get it at all.Just might list the 620 next...LOL
Posted by: scammed2 at December 10, 2007 01:56 AM
Hey George, you f..ing liar. Where the hell did you come up with 3 units? ( you must be drinking too much again. "Way" ( spelt why this way so you can understand) don't you tell every one how your listings were removed for inappropiate links back to your website. I also noticed that you removed from your web site the claim that these Chinese made pieces of crap, that you only distribute were made in the USA. If you do make these( which we both know you don't)how come it is not printed on the carton or the units themselves? Why did I get more help from the manufacturer of the circuit board, who is located in China (www.szacs.com), than the con artist I bought it from? I suppose that is a lie to and I went ahead and made up this company web site just to make you look bad. If you are such a big company, why are you, the self proclaimed CEO answering emails on Ebay? WHAT A JOKE!! And you got the balls to call others an idiot.....Oh,by the way, why don't you tell everyone why buying the exhaust adapter would make their life easier?....hmmm lets see, Is it because as you say in your guides and reviews that one won't find a proper fit for the ducting for cheap Chinese units? SUCH AS YOURS. Nice way to try to flim flam the "backbone" of your business. What is the size of the 514 exhaust outlet? ..less than 2" and ahhh, more than 1 3/4"... For once you are right, it will be hard to find any ducting to fit that! I don't think it will be too long before we see these useless contraptions gone forever and along with them George Sararu, Ceo himself. By the way, I can't make up my mind which unit is worse, the 514 or the 620 who's modulation is so slow that the erratic water temps is simply annoying....and I did buy the second unit after your promised to refund in full for the 514 once I got the 620 installed. Your con was working at that time,but when the 620 failed right from the beginning,that is when the TRUTH and your bull started to become evident.Is your BBB rating still F- George? I wonder why??? Guess the Backbone of your business is not to happy.
Posted by: scammed2 at December 10, 2007 01:35 AM
Hey George, it's Sarah again. You are full of crap! I never installed the unit you sent-and you only sent me ONE! I bet you never even opened the box when it was returned to you. Funny thing I've noticed about you, you only respond to your unhappy, unsatisfied customers in this forum. You never return direct emails, phone calls or letters. You SUCK!! And I will continue to tell everyone I know hou much you suck!!!I admit I ordered the wrong unit, I explained that to you when I finally did get an RMA number from you, after almost 2 months of requesting one! There's that stellar (that means Good, George) customer service you provide-NOT! Hey, here's a thought, maybe if you spent as much time servicing your customers as you do covering your ass with lies in blogs like these, people wouldn't complain so much.Not that you care what people say once you have their money-JACKASS!!!
Posted by: Sarah at December 6, 2007 08:30 PM
Buyer,
Waste of money. These are just piece of junk Chinese water heater. George is SOB . He doesn't take any comment to accept his problem. Bastard Chineese need to learn customer service.We are so glad he is not on ebay. Unit has all kind of issues. During shower , just turn off gas and give you cold water, some time too hot to melt pipe. george always blame customer reather than accepting comment to improve quality. Typical Chineese.
Posted by: Jittu Surendra at December 4, 2007 09:10 AM
Omega 2000 Group Corp makes the best Gas Tankless Water heaters in the USA . The track record stands.
This response is for "scammed2" (his real name Ron Stevens!) Again you don't make any sense but again what we shoud expect from a person like you. No matter how you put it, even if you are right (wich you are not!) you come up looking realy stupid: "Full me once, shame on you! Full me twice shame on me!". Come one, you expect people reading this are so dumm to believe a person wich after purchasing a $450.00 appliance (wich you describe as junk!) you go ahead buying a second one for $650.00 and then another one for $450.00? You said that you purchase 2 units but based on the picture you display on the last auction (terminated by Ebay and wich almost got you espelled!) you also purchase a 514 ZP unit. If you had so much problem with the first, then with the second , then way you purchase a third? You have to miss some brain cells to do that, here, in the real world! OR.....What is your alterial motive? When you write "reviews" and "blugs" at list make sure you keep the same line and talk technical (not: "ceap white metal"! my 10 year old son can do better!)) and dont mix facts which anybody can check (AKA: "Little engine that could" is the slogan for OME 506, point of use and not for OME 514!)
All discusion asside;
This is the best example of what is wrong with America: you can not send somebody to jail for owing money so a penyless bumm can blabber his mouth how much he wants! Is nothing you can get from him and the Courts can not impose any "gag order" .
Posted by: George Sararu at December 1, 2007 08:39 PM
1. Well, "Sarah" you brought it on yourselph: You install the unit but not plug it in. Unit frose solid, you sent it back, we replace it (we did not suppose to but.....??) you wait another 2 months and then ask for your money back, not to me but to Paypal. When Paypal ask you for return tracking number, you provided the one for returning of the damaged unit. We responded with the return tracking number and Paypal compare the dates and say : "NIET" Sorry but regardless of how cheaper or expensive is to sue in California, you only provide 1 tracking number and I provided 2 (delivered!). When you provided me the second return tracking number I will be happy to refund your money.
2. I can care less how quick Midwest racers exchange responded to you: The guy is been kicked off the Ebay and in his remaining page "about me" if you go and click on the picture he provide about himselph, you get the finger you deserve for looking for such a looser!
Posted by: George sararu at December 1, 2007 08:15 PM
Sorry, but I must get in on this. First of all, Mike from Midwest responded to me quicker and more professionally than Mr. Sararu ever did. We returned a unit to Omega 2000 that was brand new-we ordered the wrong kind-He NEVER SENT ME MY REFUND and he has slandered me all over paypal, saying I installed the unit, never plugged it in, it froze and he replaced it. This little work of fiction never happened. Certainly a scam artist such as this knows that it is not exactly cost efficient for me to file a small claims case in California when I live in Michigan. Needless to say, I never got my refund, Paypal is no help, George is a rude jerk. And he can't spell worth a damn. Hope you enjoy the $656 you stole from me you jerk! It should be extremely interesting to see what you say about me now.
Posted by: Sarah at November 21, 2007 07:11 PM
George took my money and ran too. He got me for 2 units. Same complaint as everyone else. He is the rudist person you will ever do business with, SO DON'T .He loves to use the word pri.k to describe his satisfied customers.And yes, The cheapy units he sells will overheat, shut down on high temp, and you will get ice cold water which will really wake you up! Then his response is "these are starter units" What the hell is that suppose to mean. You start with a inferior unit to try it out, then move up? . Would be nice if he told the "backbone" of his business(what he describes his victums as)before they purchase the piece of crap.They are little more than a single point of use unit. He may be good if the thing works, but good luck getting any satisfaction if there is a problem, which is very very common.Don't count on the owners manual for any help as it is basically a cartoon! What a joke.If you should get him, you will get the response of you installed incorrectly! I'm not gonna fix or refund for damage you did, do I look like Santa claus? Real nice guy! One day he will scam the wrong person and hopefully they pay him a "visit" at his "HOME" in Hemet. Remember the little engine that could. His slogan for the 514 should be the little heater that can't !!
Posted by: scammed2 at October 12, 2007 04:59 PM
Don't know much about the Omega 2000, but I've had really nice reports on the Marey units, especially the shower heaters. I'm a dealer for Marey and am quite impressed with their communication to the customer, and dealers (me). They've been making water heaters for over 50 years and even though they're based in PR, they speak English and a a pleasure to deal with.
Again, our most popular is the Marey Shower Heater, but the LPG & NG along with Electric sell very well, with overall positive feedback from buyers.
Mark-
http://ecofreaky.com
Posted by: Mark B. at September 15, 2007 02:32 PM
Regardless of all your dissertations, Omega 2000 Group remain the best tankless water heater manufactory in the USA. We try to make the most idiot proof units around but seems (based on the postings!) that as soon as we get it done, God makes a better idiot. In regard to “since when China is in USA“ the only answer I can come by is since Clinton sold it to them. We never claim that all product is made in USA. The early ones, OME 306, OME 110 and the early production of OME 412 and 514 was made in China. You seem to be very crafty in blogin around but totally innocent when it come to do a simple Google search or Dun and Bradstreet search. You see , you actually making me a service: You make people to search some more, to find the truth . If they don’t, and just swallow your vomit …?. I am not sure that I have a need for such a customer.
Posted by: George Sararu at July 12, 2007 12:36 PM
So how long has China been in the US? My pea sized brain must have missed that. These so called "best US Manufacturer of Gas Tankless water heater units" are Chinese junk. Would you like me to post some pictures of one with all the made in China stickers? More proof that he has to resort to name calling and accusations to cover his lies and try to divert the truth from his lack of customer service(actaully none) and inferior product.
What's with the senseless run on sentences? Flunk out of grade school? You definately flunked out of business school.
Please post some more. I need some more senseless moronic postings to pass around for a good laugh at the shop.
Mike
Midwest-Racers-Exchange
SolarRT00
But, I am not any of the other posters. They are just more of your satisfied customers, NOT. ROFLOL
Posted by: SolarRT00 at July 9, 2007 11:21 PM
Don't buy their toilet's either. One of the toilets I bought from his had a factory defect and leaked. Exchanged more phone calls then I can remember and he won't replace it. Don't do business with George Sararu!!
Posted by: Angry Costumer at July 9, 2007 02:57 PM
The truth remains the same: We are the best US Manufacturer of Gas Tankless water heater units. Nobody screw you! Your uncontrolled blabbering mouth and your inherent stupidity (I digress! What can we expect from a Chrysler junk seller who can not decide what to call himself “SolarRT00” or “Midwest racers exchange” or “Clauder” or ..What’s next? “rain”) is the one which screw you ! I have to admit : I am good but even me can’t help a pee brain with a single digit IQ. Good luck in life . George Sararu
Posted by: George Sararu at July 8, 2007 02:00 PM
Look it up for yourself at www.labbb.org the website for the Southern California Better Business Bureau. Search for Omega 2000 group. Clearly shows an "F" rating. The only blabbering idiot is you on here with your endless lies. Now you are caught red handed in one. Ever since you tried to screw me over on ebay with one of these pieces of junk I have made it my goal let everyone know about these pieces of junk and your rude and horrible customer service.
Have a nice day!!
Mike
Midwest Racers Exchange
Posted by: SolarRT00 at June 29, 2007 12:38 AM
I am wandering way this site let those blabbering idiots to post all those aberrations :
Omega 2000 Group is a Nevada Corp and we do have a office in Hemet Ca (Riverside Co). What anything has to do with BBB in Los Angeles Ca ???? Time and electrons will be better spend for this "Webmaster" to put up his story not to manufacture dirt about somebody else's. Way you don't put up your real name and not hide behind all those dreamed names like "solarR700" or "Gary Rett" and the latest "clauder"
The truth is that we do have the best track record . 11 idiots complaining from 43.000 units sold last year, O(zero) lawsuits, 0 (zero) consumer protection agency actions, 0 (zero) recalls (voluntary or involuntary!) is a record better by far then any (and I meant ANY!) manufacturer out there.
George Sararu
Posted by: George Sararu at June 24, 2007 06:01 AM
Why can't George pull his head out of his a$$ long enough to answer his email. He is a lying SOB. Customer service - what a joke. Should have gotten the Takagi.
Posted by: clauder at June 5, 2007 08:39 PM
More on the Omega 2000 garbage. He has been kicked off the LA area Better Business Bureau and now has an "F" rating. Also Tankless-unlimited is Omega2000(George Sararu) posting under an alias. More proof of the deceptive practices he uses to sell this chinese junk. Buyer Beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: SolarRT00 at April 4, 2007 10:31 PM
Dear Customer,
I posted few bad thing about the Omega 412 water heater. There was little problem to contact with George. Finally I contacted him and he took care the issue. He send me required part to replace it and unit working ok. Compare to the other brand his price is affordable.
Posted by: Brij Sri at March 20, 2007 10:39 AM
I am familiar with this line of water heaters and I see a big problem with your posting:
You suppose to connect 4 inches exhaust not 3 inch and you suppose to have the special exhaust adapter to create the loose S shape if you mount the unit on the wall.
No wander the units overheat and shut off! Your flue is not sufficient for ventilation.
The second problem I see is that gas connection has to be hard pipe not flex. I never hear (or see!) a broken gas pipe after installation. More likely you did not use counter wrenches when you connect the pipe and I do admit the treads are quite tight.
We do sell this brand of tankless and the only complaint I have is that they do not spend any money in advertising. Tankless-Unlimited, ELCO NV
Posted by: Tankless-unlimited at March 17, 2007 01:04 PM
Omega 412 tank less water heater- I bought 5 pieces of these water heater for my apartment . This is my big mistake. This is so poor design. first problem I had to connect the flue line. When I was using regular 3" pipe it was leaving so much gap and cause bad gas leak so I had to change with double wall pipe. I was trying to explain to George but he is not listening.
my tennant complain all the time about the water heater. They are not getting hot water constant. During the shower , heat just turned off so they have to close and open shower faucet.
Gas connector so weak, Careful otherwise you will burn the building. Do not connect hard pipe to water heater. Littale movement can break the gas inlet pipe , it is so shitty chinease metal.
Now my 2 water heater quit working. I chand the batteries as usual we change still no luck. There is white platic round piece behind the diaphram just busted itself so when we turn on the water it doesn't activate the microswitch. I am calling for part and no help. These are junk please do not buy. i could have bought regular heater. I expend so much time on these water heater since 9 month
I bought 514 Omega that has same problem like water get so hot or so cold even I am following his instruction but did not help.
Posted by: Brij sri at March 9, 2007 08:57 AM
The only funny thing is how much of a piece of junk these heaters are. Substandard parts and shoddy worksmanship add up to trouble in the long run. You will soon be kicked off ebay yourself with the crap you sell and your complete lack of customer service. I'll forward the e-mail's from my paypal claim(that I won) from this peice of work for anyone who wants know how this supposed CEO treats his customers. It is incredible how rude the responses I got were. Oh and by the way the address of 160S Carmelita Street Hemet, Ca 92543 he lists as his headquarters is a residential address and the picture he shows of his fancy corporate headquarters on his website is a fake.
Posted by: SolarRT00 at February 27, 2007 07:47 PM
We must be doing something right!
To make the competition so scared that they have to hide their name and start with baseless accusation, they are down to the last chance.
And from who, a "Marey" distributor? If it will not be pitiful it will be actually funny! Thanks for reinforcing our results.
PS: That is way you got kicked off even from Ebay? Too good of a product? Something to think about ......
Posted by: Omega 2000 Group at January 22, 2007 01:01 AM
I have to agree on the Omega2000 units. They are a substandard chinese piece of junk. Customer service? what customer sercvice? The CEO George Sararu has no clue about it. He sure knows how to give out the insults and accuations even though they should be directed at himself. In other words avoid the Omega units, the price is tempting but is your sanity worth it.
Posted by: SolarRT00 at January 8, 2007 11:03 PM
Do NOT get a tankless water heater from Omega2000Group. They don't work, and the customer service is unresponsive, then incompetent.
Posted by: Gary Rett at October 24, 2006 12:09 PM
How are the electric tankless water heaters and do they use a huge amoung of electricity.
Posted by: donna at April 3, 2006 07:25 PM